The Issue of Racism in America

Reading it without a photo, I assumed they were talking about this:



But since he looks more like Snoop Dogg, I'm really not seeing the outrage, unless white men can't costume as a black character ever.

So what about Fred Armisen playing Barack Obama? Or reverse it with the Wayan brothers playing stereotypical blonde white chicks. Where's the outrage on that? Stupid.

PLEASE READ

Due to an inbox full of complaints and possibly the partial cause of recent forum inactivity, I'm sadly having to repeat warnings which I'd hoped had been made crystal clear time and again on these forums, especially in this and other politically-sensitive topics:

GROSS GENERALISATIONS, be them racist, cultural, sexual (or of any other kind which common sense dictates could lead to offending others) will NOT be tolerated here. By all means speak your minds, but for God's sakes please just check how you've worded your posts (or how those posts could be interpreted) before submitting them.

If j7 can be banned, suspended or ganged up on for proveable intolerance, idiocy, racism or other insensitive behaviour, then those same intolerances of such behaviour must apply to every other member here.

Thank you,


M

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I recently revisited the Black Bond thread and was shocked to see the amount of racism that went unpunished. For whatever reason I didn't pay much attention to the thread back then but with nine other mods it's a wonder it got a pass... I regret not paying closer attention and doing something about it, I'll try not to let that slip by again. In the case I do miss something again, I too would like to be notified of any foul activity.

M wrote:

PLEASE READ

Due to an inbox full of complaints and possibly the partial cause of recent forum inactivity, I'm sadly having to repeat warnings which I'd hoped had been made crystal clear time and again on these forums, especially in this and other politically-sensitive topics:

GROSS GENERALISATIONS, be them racist, cultural, sexual (or of any other kind which common sense dictates could lead to offending others) will NOT be tolerated here. By all means speak your minds, but for God's sakes please just check how you've worded your posts (or how those posts could be interpreted) before submitting them.

If j7 can be banned, suspended or ganged up on for proveable intolerance, idiocy, racism or other insensitive behaviour, then those same intolerances of such behaviour must apply to every other member here.

Thank you,


M

First of all, this is nothing personal against you M. You're doing what you have to as the Administrator.

I'm leaving. This is my last post. It's not reactionary or made in haste. It's simply seeing the writing on the wall and choosing to bow out gracefully rather than force you to make a call you probably don't want to have to make. I'm sure I'm at least one of the people being complained about. The truth is you'd have no choice but to delete my account eventually because I will not change. I will not make any further adjustments in what I say or how I say it just to appease a few people who feel like they have the right to live their life free of any controversy, offense, or contrary opinion. The Internet is the great equalizer. It's about getting out facts and opinions that other older, more "mainstream" sources try to block. Once that avenue to speak your mind and speak freely is gone, there's nothing left to do but move on.

You assume that people haven't checked how they've worded their posts, but the truth is many people have. Many have actually held back. If people still have a problem with that then there is simply nothing else that can be done; someone has to go.

I doubt that forum inactivity is due to "racism". I'd expect that sort of fall-back argument from someone like Jack Wade. The inactivity is due to much simpler reasons.

The fact that we have to have a topic about racism (which is a daily topic in the news, whether it's warranted or not) in a private thread only for select people speaks volumes about how ridiculously sensitive people are. I can't live my life worrying about what a few people think. I won't.

I'd rather post in a forum with only 300 members (of which only a 1/6th actually contribute anything) than 10,000 politically correct, sensitive, New-Age pussies.

Anyway...that's all I've got.

Good luck to everyone.

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x

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Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

M wrote:

PLEASE READ

Due to an inbox full of complaints and possibly the partial cause of recent forum inactivity, I'm sadly having to repeat warnings which I'd hoped had been made crystal clear time and again on these forums, especially in this and other politically-sensitive topics:

GROSS GENERALISATIONS, be them racist, cultural, sexual (or of any other kind which common sense dictates could lead to offending others) will NOT be tolerated here. By all means speak your minds, but for God's sakes please just check how you've worded your posts (or how those posts could be interpreted) before submitting them.

If j7 can be banned, suspended or ganged up on for proveable intolerance, idiocy, racism or other insensitive behaviour, then those same intolerances of such behaviour must apply to every other member here.

Thank you,


M

First of all, this is nothing personal against you M. You're doing what you have to as the Administrator.

I'm leaving. This is my last post. It's not reactionary or made in haste. It's simply seeing the writing on the wall and choosing to bow out gracefully rather than force you to make a call you probably don't want to have to make. I'm sure I'm at least one of the people being complained about. The truth is you'd have no choice but to delete my account eventually because I will not change. I will not make any further adjustments in what I say or how I say it just to appease a few people who feel like they have the right to live their life free of any controversy, offense, or contrary opinion. The Internet is the great equalizer. It's about getting out facts and opinions that other older, more "mainstream" sources try to block. Once that avenue to speak your mind and speak freely is gone, there's nothing left to do but move on.

You assume that people haven't checked how they've worded their posts, but the truth is many people have. Many have actually held back. If people still have a problem with that then there is simply nothing else that can be done; someone has to go.

I doubt that forum inactivity is due to "racism". I'd expect that sort of fall-back argument from someone like Jack Wade. The inactivity is due to much simpler reasons.

The fact that we have to have a topic about racism (which is a daily topic in the news, whether it's warranted or not) in a private thread only for select people speaks volumes about how ridiculously sensitive people are. I can't live my life worrying about what a few people think. I won't.

I'd rather post in a forum with only 300 members (of which only a 1/6th actually contribute anything) than 10,000 politically correct, sensitive, New-Age pussies.

Anyway...that's all I've got.

Good luck to everyone.

Tremendous valedictory, Gravy. I couldn't have said it better myself, and needless to say, I agree with every word you've written. We live in an age where racial McCarthyism is the coin of the realm, and honesty is a synonym for so-called "racism." It's a pathetic situation, but it's also the world in which we live.

Farewell, mate. And let us hope for a better day.

While I can see M's point here, I can also see the other sides of the argument. Wasn't the whole point of this racism topic being moved into the restricted area a way of letting people know in advance that the topic would contain sensitive, adult, controversial or probably even potentially offensive content? If not, then why move the topic in the first place?

While I'm not defending offensive comments by any means, surely when you enter a topic about racism you're gonna get both sides of the coin in there. Surely it would work better to have the debates about racism played out openly in the topic itself? That's what the topic is there for after all, and that's why it's placed in a restricted area which implies adult/controversial content. If somebody in there is being blatantly offensive, I'd say it makes more sense to highlight their offensiveness on the boards rather than running off to M about it. Why? a) Because this way, we can show the guilty parties what they're doing "wrong" and debate the situation maturely and fairly, b) We won't have members quitting because someone's ran off to M complaining about them, c) it will possibly stop "racism" a lot more by discussing the topic sensibly with the guilty parties rather than just having them leave or get booted out to spread their "wrong" opinions elsewhere across the internet, and d) It also prevents our admin from having to choose sides and make tricky/impossible decisions which could cost these forums valuable members when debate over "punishment" and "grassing people up" breaks out.

At the end of the day, debate is a massive part of a forum's existence, some would argue that this is exactly what a forum is designed for. If someone is being an ass, then highlight it and debate it. It does a hell of a lot more good for the forums than creating an atmosphere of snide grassing and deprivation of opinions.

x

Lazenby. wrote:

While I can see M's point here, I can also see the other sides of the argument. Wasn't the whole point of this racism topic being moved into the restricted area a way of letting people know in advance that the topic would contain sensitive, adult, controversial or probably even potentially offensive content? If not, then why move the topic in the first place?

While I'm not defending offensive comments by any means, surely when you enter a topic about racism you're gonna get both sides of the coin in there. Surely it would work better to have the debates about racism played out openly in the topic itself? That's what the topic is there for after all, and that's why it's placed in a restricted area which implies adult/controversial content. If somebody in there is being blatantly offensive, I'd say it makes more sense to highlight their offensiveness on the boards rather than running off to M about it. Why? a) Because this way, we can show the guilty parties what they're doing "wrong" and debate the situation maturely and fairly, b) We won't have members quitting because someone's ran off to M complaining about them, c) it will possibly stop "racism" a lot more by discussing the topic sensibly with the guilty parties rather than just having them leave or get booted out to spread their "wrong" opinions elsewhere across the internet, and d) It also prevents our admin from having to choose sides and make tricky/impossible decisions which could cost these forums valuable members when debate over "punishment" and "grassing people up" breaks out.

At the end of the day, debate is a massive part of a forum's existence, some would argue that this is exactly what a forum is designed for. If someone is being an ass, then highlight it and debate it. It does a hell of a lot more good for the forums than creating an atmosphere of snide grassing and deprivation of opinions.

Well said, Laz. The solution to solution to offensive speech is more speech, not less. But now Gravy's gone, and he was worth 50 of the sniveling, cowardly ankle-biters who didn't have the spine or the brains to debate him in the open.

While I agree with Ambler's comments, I also think that the format of our forum could be one of our main problems. IMO, we need something with the user-convenience of Facebook (to accomodate the ever-growing use of mobile internet) but with the navigational ease and organisation of a classic forum. This was probably what MI6 were trying to do, but ended up just proving the point that it's very tough to combine both structures (classic forum and Facebook-style posting convenience) without falling short on one or both aims or, worse still, just becoming a clusterfuck of both. It's a changing world, and we need to find a way of changing with it whilst still somehow maintaining the best aspects of the classic forum.

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Largo's Shark wrote:

I think it's time for a forum upgrade. Not necessarily switching to Vanilla (what MI6Community uses), but at least something a bit more up to date, like what Cb.n's got. Maybe with an option for different skins. An active Twitter account would also be a good move.

About the political discussions. The "more speech not less" would have more weight if these threads were more than just echo chambers with the occasional contrary opinion from the left. We have (or had) three highly outspoken right wing members in Khan, Gravity and tiffanywint. Because there's no one challenging their weltanschauung here (unless we count saint mark's limp efforts), these threads become monotonous, and prospective lefty members are drawn off - due to balanced debate seeming like an uphill battle.

Well now that Gravy's gone and I'm the only cultural conservtive around, there should be no intimidation factor and we should expect swarms of mincing leftwing Nancies to descend upon us.

As an aside, I find Jake Wade's avatar appalling, hideous and gratuitously offensive, but I would never think to demand he change it, or worse still, to go crawling to M to have him be my catspaw.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Well now that Gravy's gone and I'm the only cultural conservtive around, there should be no intimidation factor and we should expect swarms of mincing leftwing Nancies to descend upon us.

Well said Khanners! "Nancies"

Perilagu Khan wrote:

As an aside, I find Jake Wade's avatar appalling, hideous and gratuitously offensive, but I would never think to demand he change it, or worse still, to go crawling to M to have him be my catspaw.

And as a further aside, I might add, I find all Daniel Craig themed avatars to be "offensive" but I won't be whining to M's catspaws anytime soon either. Long live Bond!

I dunno, saying that black people by nature are corrupt isn't something attractive for newcomers.

Python wrote:

I dunno, saying that black people by nature are corrupt isn't something attractive for newcomers.

who said that? btw I think we could posit fairly safely that no type of people are corrupt by nature. Just my humble opinion.

Stuff like that can be found in the black Bond thread, then there was Gravy's remark elsewhere that minorities should "assimilate to white culture", inadvertently implying that other cultures are inferior.

Python wrote:

Stuff like that can be found in the black Bond thread, then there was Gravy's remark elsewhere that minorities should "assimilate to white culture", inadvertently implying that other cultures are inferior.

It doesn't actually imply that, but he obviously is referring to what extent, sovereign nations should ask new immigrants to assimilate. It's a legitimate discussion, and one that any country with an immigration policy will debate. If you want to see cutthroat immigration policy though, don't even think about emigrating to Quebec, without government enforced, major indoctrination into Quebecois language culture.
"Stuff like that can be found" If you are going to call someone out, it would behoove you to provide the quote, otherwise we have no idea what you are talking about. Just sayin.

I'll do better and just give you one page of examples: https://bondandbeyond.forumotion.com/t824p135-the-inevitability-of-a-black-bond

Though I do want to applaud Sharky's "there's only one race I believe in, and that's the human race". Skin color is only as relevant as those who emphasize too much on it.

Python wrote:

I'll do better and just give you one page of examples: https://bondandbeyond.forumotion.com/t824p135-the-inevitability-of-a-black-bond

Sigh. Like I said, it would behoove you to provide an example, otherwise we have no idea what you are talking about. But if its too much effort......

x

Python wrote:

Stuff like that can be found in the black Bond thread, then there was Gravy's remark elsewhere that minorities should "assimilate to white culture", inadvertently implying that other cultures are inferior.

Cultures are not equal. There's a difference between poking a bone through one's nose and putting a man on the moon, regardless of what the anthropologists might say. And I fully believe that all peoples who live in the West should assimilate to western cultural mores. (Hence, if I moved to Burkina Faso, I would attempt to assimilate there.) This was accepted wisdom as recently as 30 years ago. Now such a belief can get one fired. Progress.

Erica Ambler wrote:

I'd say the question is less what is racist and isn't racist than whether such debates have any place here. This forum should be fun, but it's been full of infighting, cliques and anger for the last year or so. I'd suggest if you want to see porn, politics or Star Trek there are better places to go. The idea of a onestop forum is dead: this place can't be everything to all people.

Then we'd better change the name of the joint. And actually, I don't disagree with you. A forum devoted to Bond and nothing else has a certain amount of merit. That said, there is politics in both literary and cinematic Bond, so you can't eliminate it entirely.