[SPOILERS] Skyfall: Post-Viewing Discussion

I'd like to peruse the various drafts.

Something I've been wondering... Didn't QOS originally end with a cliffhanger where Bond was shot? I'm wondering that was an element of whatever Bond 23 began as that was carried over.

Turned out that FRWL-type ending was just a rumor spread among fans. Here's what the end of QOS was originally:

Quote :

Original Ending
A scene showing Mr White's ultimate fate and the identity of his superior was filmed and included in early cuts to conclude the film.

Mentioned in the film as one of the Prime Minister's closest advisors, Guy Haines is also a senior member of the shadowy organisation 'Quantum'. 007 discovers his presence during the Tosca opera scene where Dominic Greene holds a meeting of Quantum members.

The movie was originally intended to end with a one-minute sequence where 007 introduces himself to Mr Haines at his estate, setting up the next adventure. The gun-barrel sequence, uniquely positioned at the end of "Quantum of Solace", would have appeared after Bond dispatches Mr White for good. The scene was shot over one day on location in London on April 14th 2008.

http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/movies/qos.php3?t=qos&s=qos

It was mentioned very early on that the Moneypenny origin angle was brought up by DC and Babs early on over lunch in NYC. The Computer/Tech theme seems very Purvis and Wade to me. But the dialogue and humour seemed the most smooth and unforced in a Bond film since...gosh I don't even know how long. Octopussy maybe? All speculation aside, the script seemed to be aided by Logan's touch. But I'd be curious to hear other observations on this...

Loomis wrote:

where are the iconic visuals in SKYFALL?

That opening shot accompanied by that brilliant cue, Bond and Patrice fighting, many that CJB mentioned, etc. I'm actually wondering what iconic shots you're referring to in CR?

I have to admit, during my first viewing of SF, I was very excited to see the oranges scattered about in the bazaar. Having diligently made every effort to spoil the movie months ahead of time, the shot of the oranges spilled out on the ground was very much in mind and suddenly there it was for real in its fiinished version. But the pigeons from the spoiler stills were nowhere to be seen. :pale:

That's one of the joys of trying to spoil the movie ahead of time. When it finally hits cinema, you have a familiarity with most of the scenes, thus its very interesting to see the shots in their finished polished versions and of course fill in the blanks for the stuff you couldn't figure out.

Iconic visuals are int he trailer, but not in the film. I have no clue why Mendes deleted those bits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ml0tKykMso

I found this religious commentary to be quite far-fetched but he makes some good points.

Where's Balje's review?

Where, indeed???

How has SKYFALL gone down over at Arts & Faith?

Largo's Shark wrote:

How has SKYFALL gone down over at Arts & Faith?

Mixed-positive. A&F's Michael Leary put together this fairly positive write-up, though.

Anyone like me, think that M should have died in that court-room, and that 007 and Eve should have been the one retreating to Skyfall, with MI6 in total panic, to escape / confront Silva?

Because to me, Eve being wounded in the last act, and going through the wringer, would have made more sense for her to retire, have enhanced the last act with a real Bond woman instead of Mommy. I think pass the courtroom, there's nothing more added to the character of M. And it would have made more sense for the vilain to suceed in killing her.

I wonder if the first draft, or earlier draft, wasn't that way. This should have been Moneypenny origin, full stop.

Also I believe the movie miss one scene where Eve save Bond by suceeding a shot, bigtime (cheering time). This is what is usually done in the genre.

Stamper wrote:

Anyone like me, think that M should have died in that court-room, and that 007 and Eve should have been the one retreating to Skyfall, with MI6 in total panic, to escape / confront Silva?

No. Doesn't appeal to me, anyway

Stamper wrote:

Anyone like me, think that M should have died in that court-room, and that 007 and Eve should have been the one retreating to Skyfall, with MI6 in total panic, to escape / confront Silva?

Because to me, Eve being wounded in the last act, and going through the wringer, would have made more sense for her to retire, have enhanced the last act with a real Bond woman instead of Mommy. I think pass the courtroom, there's nothing more added to the character of M. And it would have made more sense for the vilain to suceed in killing her.

I wonder if the first draft, or earlier draft, wasn't that way. This should have been Moneypenny origin, full stop.

Also I believe the movie miss one scene where Eve save Bond by suceeding a shot, bigtime (cheering time). This is what is usually done in the genre.

Your scenario is far preferable to the drama-Bond saga that went down. But with directors like Mendes this is what they are going to serve up. For better or worse but you won't get a conventionable Bond adventure.

I would have prefered that Bond manage to rescue Severine from Silva's island and that she assume her role as full-Bond girl who survives to the end. Yes M could have been left behind at a safe house in London and then later retired with new M and MP moving into their new office digs. Old M didn't actually need to be killed. Or M could have been simply killed in the courtroom assault. Either way goodbye. Then Bond could have gone after Silva without the encumbrance of M. The whole SF Lodge scenario could have been dispensed with in totality as well as the cheesy and uttlerly non-sensical DB5 interlude.

Silva could have continued to threaten the realm with some other terrorist attack. He could have re-captured the girl. That sets up for a classic Bond finish, with Bond destroying the villain and his scheme and rescuing the girl. Bond and Severine sail off on the big sailboat at the end.

Perfect. Bond is indeed back!

Stamper wrote:

I think pass the courtroom, there's nothing more added to the character of M.

She finally confesses for her sins and sacrifices herself for her country. "I really fucked up, didn't I?

Stamper wrote:

And it would have made more sense for the vilain to suceed in killing her.

With any other villain, but not Silva.

Can't agree Stamper. The way it plays out works just fine and having M decide to become the bait and admit she "fucked it up" is her moment of humility that gave her a character arc. Purvis & Wade discussed in an interview that they thought of killing M halfway through QOS but shortly scrapped it as they thought it would have been utterly pointless and add nothing to the story, and that if they ever went that route it should mean something for the film instead of being a moment of shock.

This might be a silly question, but who was the target of the assassination in Shanghai? I don't recall it ever being discussed (and suspect it might have been cut).

Patrice was under the employ of Silva when he stole the drive in Turkey, but for all intents and purposes, their collaboration ended there. However, Severine was effectively Silva's property, and so her presence in the tower meant that the assassination was was sanctioned by Silva. He knew Severine was loyal to him and only to him - if though sheer terror of him more than anything else - and so she could be present when he could not. That implies that the man Patrice kills was somebody Silva wanted dead. Alternatively, Severine's presence could be Silva's way of repaying Patrice by helping him carry out a job, but Patrice was paid with a casino chip, so Silva wasn't doing him a favour in return.

I suspect that the target of the assassin was the same person that was in the black and white photo with M. When M went through the photos, looking for the one that had been used for the animation foreshadowing the attck on MI6, there was a Chinese man with her in the frame. It would make sense for Silva to want him dead, given that he was handed over to the Chinese. If she was someone close to M at the time, then Silva would probably consider him partially responsible for what happened.

But it is never explained in the film (that I remember).

I thought it was Severine, but apparently it was the guy he hit - the art dealer sitting on the chair. I read somewhere that Silva organised some fake painting or something to lure him there so they could assassinate him

If that's true, then evidently something was cut.

Yeah, I thought I missed it on the first viewing, so went back again at a midnight screening last night to see what I missed (like how Bond was shot twice and has one wound in the PTS), but couldn't work it out. Hence, I think that Severine could have been the target, considering that she becomes "redundant" and Silva dispatches her later on anyway.

EDIT: I'd love to do a Bondathon, watching Thunderball, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, For Your Eyes Only, The World Is Not Enough and Skyfall. They're interconnected. Winter themes in OHMSS, FYEO, TWINE and SF (with the ice lake). Revenge theme in TB, FYEO, TWINE and SF. Focus on Britain in OHMSS, FYEO, TWINE and SF.

But then again, QOS, and GE massively fit into those categories. Here we go again - from one thought to another.

I kind of feel that SF is a post-modern take on GE. You have a vengeful villain, who incidentally was head of Station H in '86, when Alec staged his death. His target is London, which Silva attacks in the process of catching M. And then you have the technological aspect - computing hacking. Goldeneye questions Bond's relevance post Cold War. The hearing encompasses this notion, as does Q. Then there is a moodiness that is apparent in both.

Amedeo Modigliani's La femme a l'eventail (Woman with a Fan) was stolen in May 2010 from the Museum of Modern Art in Paris, which in SKYFALL Severine uses as bait for the Chinese businessman. This is a nod to Francisco Goya's Portrait of the Duke of Wellington appearing on the wall of Dr. No's lair, when it was stolen in 1961.

I don't think Severine was the target (least of all because Patrice never aims at her). Silva's plan called for him to be captured and taken to London. Patrice and Severine were the two most obvious links to him, and if Severine died, then it would have been harder for Bond to track him down. After all, Silva had Bond's file, which would have contained details of his service record both before and after the assignment in Turkey. He knew women were Bond's weakness, and no doubt planned to have Severine cross paths with him at some point, if not quite the way that it happened in the film.

If the target of the assassination was indeed someone involved in Silva's capture in the 1990s, then it adds a new layer to Bond's rehablitation. He cashed the casino token to follow the lead, rather than investigating the dead man. If he'd done the latter, he might have found out who Silva was in advance - and he could have reported to MI6, found out who Silva was, and the entire outcome of the film would have been different. Not investigating the target was a mistake.

It's only one of many Bond makes throughout the film.

Largo's Shark wrote:

Amedeo Modigliani's La femme a l'eventail (Woman with a Fan) was stolen in May 2010 from the Museum of Modern Art in Paris, which in SKYFALL Severine uses as bait for the Chinese businessman. This is a nod to Francisco Goya's Portrait of the Duke of Wellington appearing on the wall of Dr. No's lair, when it was stolen in 1961.

That's a well crafted homage. Yes in DN we do see Connery pause briefly and check out the painting with a knowing look.

I am not clear on why the art dealer/buyer had been targeted for assassination. Otherwise it does seem clear that Severine and thus by extension Silva were complicit in arranging for Patrice to execute the hit.

Severine knew that Patrice had been attacked after pulling the trigger. She confirms with Bond in Macau that Bond did indeed kill Patrice, and that "they" had been wondering who might attempt to cash the casino chip.

Although I have no idea if the hit on the art dealer was just Silva doing regular business, or as Prisoner Monkey suggests that it might tie-in with with the plot against M too. :scratch:

Quote :

If the target of the assassination was indeed someone involved in Silva's capture in the 1990s, then it adds a new layer to Bond's rehablitation. He cashed the casino token to follow the lead, rather than investigating the dead man. If he'd done the latter, he might have found out who Silva was in advance - and he could have reported to MI6, found out who Silva was, and the entire outcome of the film would have been different. Not investigating the target was a mistake.

I don't think this was a mistake. Bond's goal was to find out who Patrice's employer was. Following up on the chip (payment) was an obvious path to whoever might have paid him and this line of inquiry did indeed lead Bond to Silva, via Severine.

Following up on the deceased would have led who knows where. All we know about the deceased is that Silva paid to have him killed. We don't know why.