[SPOILERS] Skyfall: Post-Viewing Discussion

tiffanywint wrote:

Following up on the deceased would have led who knows where. All we know about the deceased is that Silva paid to have him killed. We don't know why.

The fact that Silva wanted him dead should have piqued Bond's attention.

Slightly OT:

I found it curious watching Ralph Fiennes (an actor considered to be Bond in the 90s) and the current Bond together. Now an actor considered to be Bond is playing his boss.

More curious though, is that I wonder if Naomie Harris', Ralph Fiennes and Ben Winshaw's contracts dictate a minimum of films they have to feature in.

I'm guessing that Harris and Whishaw have agreed to do at least one more film.

Fiennes, I'm not so sure. During production, I heard that his part had been written in such a way that he could continue with the series or walk away if he wanted to, and the decision would not create a contradiction. However, this would require him to take temporary control of MI6 until a successor is appointed; that way, BOND 24 could make it clear that the government liked his work and offered him the position full-time, or that they found a new candidate.

FieldsMan wrote:

Slightly OT:

I found it curious watching Ralph Fiennes (an actor considered to be Bond in the 90s) and the current Bond together. Now an actor considered to be Bond is playing his boss.

SF is also the second time Bond has played opposite a John Steed actor. The original Steed, Patrick MacNee in AVTAK, and now Fiennes who played Steed in the Avengers film, opposite the originalBond as supervillain.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

tiffanywint wrote:

Following up on the deceased would have led who knows where. All we know about the deceased is that Silva paid to have him killed. We don't know why.

The fact that Silva wanted him dead should have piqued Bond's attention.

Does the movie even tell us why Silva wanted this art dealer dead or does it matter? ie Suffice to say, killing people is all in a day's work. Don't sweat the why gentle filmgoer.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

If the target of the assassination was indeed someone involved in Silva's capture in the 1990s, then it adds a new layer to Bond's rehablitation. He cashed the casino token to follow the lead, rather than investigating the dead man. If he'd done the latter, he might have found out who Silva was in advance - and he could have reported to MI6, found out who Silva was, and the entire outcome of the film would have been different. Not investigating the target was a mistake.

The target was an art dealer/collector. This was explained in exposition cut from SKYFALL.

Babs has confirmed that Harris, Whishaw, and Fiennes knew full well that there are commitments beyond Skyfall for each of three.

And a good thing too. Hopefully Kinnear as well. Hooray for Tanner not being Lobotomised Man-Moneypenny!

Harmsway wrote:

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

If the target of the assassination was indeed someone involved in Silva's capture in the 1990s, then it adds a new layer to Bond's rehablitation. He cashed the casino token to follow the lead, rather than investigating the dead man. If he'd done the latter, he might have found out who Silva was in advance - and he could have reported to MI6, found out who Silva was, and the entire outcome of the film would have been different. Not investigating the target was a mistake.

The target was an art dealer/collector. This was explained in exposition cut from SKYFALL.

Harms, do you know which other scenes (filmed or unfilmed) were dropped? All I know of is the jogging-in-the-park scene (glimpsed in the teaser trailer), but presumably this was a very shot scene (lasting a few seconds, maybe) and maybe not much longer than what's in the teaser.

Loomis wrote:

Harms, do you know which other scenes (filmed or unfilmed) were dropped?

Most of the edits were just paring down scenes that are already in the film.

The biggest scene--cut from the script while they were filming--was a chase between Bond and Silva after Severine's death, where they would crash through a skylight and find themselves wrestling among swarms of rats. I kinda wish this had been kept; Silva's introduction is great, but the transition from Severine's death to Bond's triumphant capture of Silva is too abrupt.

Here's some other stuff we know of, taken from a list by the user Vauxhall over at CB.n:

-dialogue between Bond and Eve in the car in Istanbul before he grabs the wheel and sideswipes Patrice's car - "Trust me", etc.
-Eve observes Istanbul motorcycle chase from rooftop position
-M and Tanner go through security at the Whitehall office building before their first meeting with Mallory - includes some humor when M takes exception to being searched
-Tanner reads Bond's obituary as he and M wait to see Mallory
-M's assistant Vanessa rushes to her computer shortly before the MI6 explosion
-exterior shots of M and Tanner attending the agents' funerals, featuring a longer Michael G. Wilson cameo
-Bond runs alone through Regent's Park as part of his recovery (seen in teaser trailer)
-possible scene in Bond's London hotel room
-Severine hands Patrice the briefcase at Shanghai International Airport (seen in videoblogs
-closer shot of Patrice falling from Shanghai office tower (seen in trailer and TV spots)
-Bond showering in Macau hotel room
-dialogue between M and Mallory in his office - "He's in the South China Sea", etc.
-M and Tanner drive out of the underground bunker towards Whitehall ahead of the inquiry
-M and Tanner go through security at the Whitehall office again - humor linked to earlier scene which was also dropped
-While on the train, Silva chastises a young man for not giving his seat to an old woman
-alternate shot of Bond shooting three times into inquiry room (seen in trailer and TV spots)
-shot of Bond avoiding debris in Skyfall Lodge, as M and Kincade hide under arch in the corner

Cheers for that. Most interesting.

Harmsway wrote:

The biggest scene--cut from the script while they were filming--was a chase between Bond and Silva after Severine's death, where they would crash through a skylight and find themselves wrestling among swarms of rats. I kinda wish this had been kept; Silva's introduction is great, but the transition from Severine's death to Bond's triumphant capture of Silva is too abrupt.

I also wish it had been kept, but really only because a chase through the abandoned city might have been cool in the extreme. The swarm of rats thing sounds a bit too Indiana Jonesish for my liking, not to mention an excessively on-the-nose payoff for Silva's opening monologue.

Harmsway wrote:

While on the train, Silva chastises a young man for not giving his seat to an old woman

First I've heard of this, but I can imagine it being a really great moment that would have brought the house down, especially in London. Not to mention that a Bond villain upbraiding a member of the public would have been a first for the series and a memorable touch both funny and menacing.

Loomis wrote:

I also wish it had been kept, but really only because a chase through the abandoned city might have been cool in the extreme.

Yeah, it's an underused location.

Per P&W, the original idea was for the island to have been a prison that Silva took over from the inside. (Also a neat idea.)

Loomis wrote:

The swarm of rats thing sounds a bit too Indiana Jonesish for my liking, not to mention an excessively on-the-nose payoff for Silva's opening monologue.

Yeah, it's a bit too on-the-nose. I don't mind the Indiana Jones-ish aspect of it, though. Fleming's Bond was always getting into icky situations with creepy creatures.

Yeah the rats thing sounds very Fleming. Grabted I also felt the komodo dragons to be very Fleming, my only conplaint was their obvious fakery, so maybe losing the rats was for the best

Third viewing today ... bloody hell, but it hangs together well. Still think a bit more Severine, Silva and another major action set-piece around the middle of it wouldn't have hurt.

But apart from those slight quibbles (and I will say that the Istanbul action, the 'siege of Skyfall' and the action 'bits' in between those are grand) ... oh hell, yeah. It's got quality performances; Craig's willingness to go places with Bond's character that have rarely been explored before is to be commended. Dench, Bardem, and Marlohe are all brilliant. Past series staples are re-introduced (Q and Moneypenny) in a way that fits into 'modern' Bond lore that made me smile a lot. Parts of it are shot utterly fantastically (Shanghai/Macau/approach to Silva's island/Scottish highlands). And dammit, there's Bond cracking 'funnies' again ... a couple don't work, but t'was ever thus. And there's a strong, proud British patriotism (but not in a repellent BNP way) that makes the breast swell more than a little. And all the homages; too many to list, but for example ... if the 'reveal' of the DB5 coupled with the Bond theme doesn't fill you with joy, then there's something wrong with you. End of.

There you go. Not sure what regard (if any) my opinion's held in round here, but there it is.

I have a plot point question. Bond was asked 'skyfall' and he answered 'done'

What was that about.

If skyfall was his house name why would he be asked about it

Forenglandjames wrote:

I have a plot point question. Bond was asked 'skyfall' and he answered 'done'

What was that about.

He meant the evaluation was 'done.'

The quack wanted to dig into Bond's childhood trauma. Presumably that's why he brought up the name of the manor in which Bond grew up (and where he resided at the time of his parents' deaths).

Because Skyfall was his childhood home. M pointed out that his psychological evaulation pointed towards a traumatic event from his childhood - the deaths of his parents (she also mentions that orphans make the best agents). Kincade mentioned that when the young James learned of his parents' deaths, he hid himself in the preist hole for two days, and when he came out, he was no longer a boy.

The entire point of the word association game is to mention innocuous words like "country" and "gun" to gauge the reactions and then throw in a meaningful word like "Skyfall" to see how the subect reacts. The deaths of Bond's parents were instrumental in the development of Bond, and in the wake of the trauma of being shot, the psychologist wanted to see if he still had the mental toughness he needed to rejoin active duty.

Hmmm
Alright
Thanks
Good answers

Saw it again tonight.

The Tennyson scene just hits me for six. What Newman, Baird, Mendes and Dench bring to the table there is top shelf.

Also, this feels like the most jam-packed Bond film ever in many ways. There doesn't seem to be a lot of fat or dead space.

SKYFALL is probably the tightest Bond film since Hunt left the editing bench. More importantly, nothing major affecting the plot seems to be missing like in other lean Bond films like QOS and TND.

SKYFALL doesn't seem very "lean" to me. That's not to say it feels bloated, but there is a relaxed sense about it, that it sometimes meanders before getting to the next big plot point (not unlike OHMSS).

From the list of deleted scenes provided above

Quote :

Severine hands Patrice the briefcase at Shanghai International Airport (seen in videoblogs

This is the escalator scene that was cut, but does anyone know what this scene is supposed to be about? What's in the briefcase?

==

Blunt Instrument wrote:

And dammit, there's Bond cracking 'funnies' again ... a couple don't work, but t'was ever thus. And there's a strong, proud British patriotism (but not in a repellent BNP way) that makes the breast swell more than a little. And all the homages; too many to list, but for example ... if the 'reveal' of the DB5 coupled with the Bond theme doesn't fill you with joy, then there's something wrong with you. End of.

There you go. Not sure what regard (if any) my opinion's held in round here, but there it is.

Much regard! Bravo! Yes it was nice to see Bond more relaxed in his skin again and reveling in his Britishness. The passing of the Churchillian bulldog figurine was a nice touch.

tiffanywint wrote:

What's in the briefcase?

Either the stolen painting or Patrice's rifle.

Largo's Shark wrote:

tiffanywint wrote:

What's in the briefcase?

Either the stolen painting or Patrice's rifle.

Well in that case probably the rifle as Severine and her minders have care and control of the painting.

Does the killing of the art dealer figure at all in the story? It doesn't seem to. It just seems to be a job for Patrice to complete at Silva's behest, but not related to Silva's attack on Mi6 or scheming against M

No, it doesn't fit into the story.

It could, however.

When M gets the second message from Silva, the one that shows the identities of the undercover agents posted on the internet, she is trying to work out where the image of her used in the first message came from. She has it narrowed down to a photograph showing her and an Asian man. This man could become the art buyer Patrice shoots - a former member of M's staff (maybe her Chief of Staff in Hong Kong) who played a part in Silva's capture in 1997.

After all, it's made pretty clear that Patrice is a freelancer and Severine is his girl. If she is present at a job Patrice is carrying out, then that means the job was sanctioned by Silva, which raises the question of why Silva wants him dead in the first place. It's unlikely Silva helped Patrice carry out the assassination as repayment for acquiring the list, because Bond finds Patrice's payment - the casino token - in his equipment.

tiffanywint wrote:

Does the killing of the art dealer figure at all in the story?

It doesn't, which is likely why all the exposition surrounding the scene was cut.